Hello all,

Does anyone have a set of examples of a gripe vs a grievance? I want to run a role play in a class I am teaching and I thought I’d  ask before I come  up with my own list.

Thanks in advance,
Emily

EMILY E. LB. TWAROG, Phd, ms  (she/herhttps://www.reimaginegender.org/insights/a-shortish-guide-to-pronouns-and-honorifics?gclid=CjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaJ1Tbp0DRGhA5LHt1rRfCT6M2Mrzpl-WcTcylZunLwYwIaYbtfx0EhoCWKUQAvD_BwE)
Associate Professor

Affiliate Faculty, Women and Gender in Global Perspective
Affiliate Faculty, European Union Center

Co-Director, Regina V. Polk Women’s Labor Leadership Programs
Scholar-in-Residence, Newberry Library, Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
School of Labor and Employment Relations
815 W. Van Buren
Rice Building Suite 110, M/C 216
Chicago, IL 60607
312.413.0166 | etwarog@illinois.edumailto:etwarog@illinois.edu
www.ler.illinois.eduhttp://www.ler.illinois.edu/

[facebook]https://www.facebook.com/Labor-Education-Program-University-of-Illinois-93566669048    [twitter] https://twitter.com/IL_Labor_Edu    [linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-e-lb-twarog-phd-44208a7/

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Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or from university employees regarding university business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.

My supervisor was mean to meMy supervisor asked me to work harder

My supervisor said that he would not let me start 40 minutes later so I could avoid the traffic

My supervisor said that I could not trade my vacation leave days with Maria. The supervisor said I have to take my vacation and Maria has to take hers

My supervisor would not give me a pay advance

My supervisor told me I had to work next Friday even though it’s my partners birthday and I need the day off to organize a big celebration

Even though there is so much work and we can never catch up my supervisor won’t let me work overtime

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Sarah Hughes <sarah.hughes05@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I don't think anything in the original post suggested that stewards would be coached to ignore grievances, just that it helps to have tools to differentiate!

We do this in Labor Notes workshops too, how you can approach both gripes and grievances as organizing opportunities, but one doesn't offer you the use of grievance tools in your campaign.

Here is a longer example I adapted from an AFSCME training. I like it because it seems like many issues that often come up-it is not always clear whether someone has a contract violation or not! Also it seems to be a past practice grievance, but might lose based on mgmt's ability to declare an emergency. So it also opens up a discussion about how you investigate, prepare your argument, and possibly think about organizing around staffing, because clearly they are short! Also usually a good convo about how our job is not to police our members' behavior, even if they make questionable choices, but be on their side. They already have a boss, you're their steward!

A good related article for thinking about gripes: https://labornotes.org/2019/07/stewards-corner-dont-complain-organize

Most of the other scenarios I have seem to be pretty specific to a particular contract.

In solidarity!

Sarah

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:08 PM William Barry <billbarry21214@gmail.com> wrote:

I think this distinction is one of the major failures of The Servicing Model because it almost dismisses problems that members have. As we try to organize (and to sign up free riders) we should listen to every "gripe," to see if we can use it as an organizing opportunity.When a member comes with a complaint, first find how many others have the same issue. Then look at the "remedy"--what we want the boss to do to make the situation right. Or look at what the union can do when the boss refuses--the COVID showed us the organizing value of the union's passing out masks when the boss refused to do it. This strategy was used over the weekend at the Amazon facility on Staten Island, by the way.

One challenge with a "gripe" for many officers is that there is no specific contract language. So use the Recognition Clause, because it gives the union the right to bargain over any term and condition of employment--and that can include "gripes."

Be proactive, respond to the members and the union will get stronger.

Bill Barry

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 9:04 AM Labarbera-Twarog, Emily <etwarog@illinois.edu> wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone have a set of examples of a gripe vs a grievance? I want to run a role play in a class I am teaching and I thought I’d ask before I come up with my own list.

Thanks in advance,

Emily

EMILY E. LB. TWAROG, Phd, ms (she/her)
Associate Professor

Affiliate Faculty, Women and Gender in Global Perspective

Affiliate Faculty, European Union Center

Co-Director, Regina V. Polk Women’s Labor Leadership Programs

Scholar-in-Residence, Newberry Library, Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
School of Labor and Employment Relations
815 W. Van Buren
Rice Building Suite 110, M/C 216
Chicago, IL 60607
312.413.0166 | etwarog@illinois.edu
www.ler.illinois.edu

<image001[88].png> <image002[70].png> <image003.png>

<image004.png>

Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or from university employees regarding university business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.

---

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--
"We are either part of the solution or part of the problem"

"The only reason an organization has dead wood is that management either hired dead wood or it hired live wood and killed it." - W. Edwards Deming

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All grievances, Marion, and I’m sure there are many of your co-workers with the same individual “gripes.”

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2023, at 5:47 PM, Marion Pollack <marion.pollack@gmail.com> wrote:

My supervisor was mean to meMy supervisor asked me to work harder

My supervisor said that he would not let me start 40 minutes later so I could avoid the traffic

My supervisor said that I could not trade my vacation leave days with Maria. The supervisor said I have to take my vacation and Maria has to take hers

My supervisor would not give me a pay advance

My supervisor told me I had to work next Friday even though it’s my partners birthday and I need the day off to organize a big celebration

Even though there is so much work and we can never catch up my supervisor won’t let me work overtime

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2023, at 2:08 PM, Sarah Hughes <sarah.hughes05@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I don't think anything in the original post suggested that stewards would be coached to ignore grievances, just that it helps to have tools to differentiate!

We do this in Labor Notes workshops too, how you can approach both gripes and grievances as organizing opportunities, but one doesn't offer you the use of grievance tools in your campaign.

Here is a longer example I adapted from an AFSCME training. I like it because it seems like many issues that often come up-it is not always clear whether someone has a contract violation or not! Also it seems to be a past practice grievance, but might lose based on mgmt's ability to declare an emergency. So it also opens up a discussion about how you investigate, prepare your argument, and possibly think about organizing around staffing, because clearly they are short! Also usually a good convo about how our job is not to police our members' behavior, even if they make questionable choices, but be on their side. They already have a boss, you're their steward!

A good related article for thinking about gripes: https://labornotes.org/2019/07/stewards-corner-dont-complain-organize

Most of the other scenarios I have seem to be pretty specific to a particular contract.

In solidarity!

Sarah

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:08 PM William Barry <billbarry21214@gmail.com> wrote:

I think this distinction is one of the major failures of The Servicing Model because it almost dismisses problems that members have. As we try to organize (and to sign up free riders) we should listen to every "gripe," to see if we can use it as an organizing opportunity.When a member comes with a complaint, first find how many others have the same issue. Then look at the "remedy"--what we want the boss to do to make the situation right. Or look at what the union can do when the boss refuses--the COVID showed us the organizing value of the union's passing out masks when the boss refused to do it. This strategy was used over the weekend at the Amazon facility on Staten Island, by the way.

One challenge with a "gripe" for many officers is that there is no specific contract language. So use the Recognition Clause, because it gives the union the right to bargain over any term and condition of employment--and that can include "gripes."

Be proactive, respond to the members and the union will get stronger.

Bill Barry

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 9:04 AM Labarbera-Twarog, Emily <etwarog@illinois.edu> wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone have a set of examples of a gripe vs a grievance? I want to run a role play in a class I am teaching and I thought I’d ask before I come up with my own list.

Thanks in advance,

Emily

EMILY E. LB. TWAROG, Phd, ms (she/her)
Associate Professor

Affiliate Faculty, Women and Gender in Global Perspective

Affiliate Faculty, European Union Center

Co-Director, Regina V. Polk Women’s Labor Leadership Programs

Scholar-in-Residence, Newberry Library, Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
School of Labor and Employment Relations
815 W. Van Buren
Rice Building Suite 110, M/C 216
Chicago, IL 60607
312.413.0166 | etwarog@illinois.edu
www.ler.illinois.edu

<image001[88].png>

<image002[70].png> <image003.png>

<image004.png>

Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or from university employees regarding university business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.

---

UALEList mailing list -- ualelist@list.uale.org
To unsubscribe send an email to ualelist-leave@list.uale.org

See UALE's website at <uale.org>. You can also like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter

--
"We are either part of the solution or part of the problem"

"The only reason an organization has dead wood is that management either hired dead wood or it hired live wood and killed it." - W. Edwards Deming

_______________________________________________
UALEList mailing list -- ualelist@list.uale.org
To unsubscribe send an email to ualelist-leave@list.uale.org

See UALE's website at <uale.org>. You can also like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter

_______________________________________________
UALEList mailing list -- ualelist@list.uale.org
To unsubscribe send an email to ualelist-leave@list.uale.org

See UALE's website at <uale.org>. You can also like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter

I have taken to framing this differently altogether.  I teach that we HAVE to make our union relevant to our members and that stewards role includes helping members solve worksite problems, building unity, building power.

these days the training formerly known as “grievance vs. gripe” is now known as “contract issue, organizing issue, neither, both”.  Contact is a tool, but not the best tool for every job, and not applicable to many situations that come up for members.  This exercise really gets at discernment — people look at ambiguous scenarios, and decide the best course of action.  Will send a version.

Sent from my iPad
Adair.dammann@seatlecolleges.edu
Cell/text: 206.409.1329

On Jun 12, 2023, at 11:08 AM, William Barry billbarry21214@gmail.com wrote:


I think this distinction is one of the major failures of The Servicing Model because it almost dismisses problems that members have. As we try to organize (and to sign up free riders) we should listen to every "gripe," to see if we can use it as an organizing opportunity.
When a member comes with a complaint, first find how many others have the same issue. Then look at the "remedy"--what we want the boss to do to make the situation right. Or look at what the union can do when the boss refuses--the COVID showed us the organizing value of the union's passing out masks when the boss refused to do it. This strategy was used over the weekend at the Amazon facility on Staten Island, by the way.
One challenge with a "gripe" for many officers is that there is no specific contract language. So use the Recognition Clause, because it gives the union the right to bargain over any term and condition of employment--and that can include "gripes."
Be proactive, respond to the members and the union will get stronger.
Bill Barry

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 9:04 AM Labarbera-Twarog, Emily <etwarog@illinois.edumailto:etwarog@illinois.edu> wrote:
Hello all,

Does anyone have a set of examples of a gripe vs a grievance? I want to run a role play in a class I am teaching and I thought I’d  ask before I come  up with my own list.

Thanks in advance,
Emily

EMILY E. LB. TWAROG, Phd, ms  (she/herhttps://www.reimaginegender.org/insights/a-shortish-guide-to-pronouns-and-honorifics?gclid=CjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaJ1Tbp0DRGhA5LHt1rRfCT6M2Mrzpl-WcTcylZunLwYwIaYbtfx0EhoCWKUQAvD_BwE)
Associate Professor

Affiliate Faculty, Women and Gender in Global Perspective
Affiliate Faculty, European Union Center

Co-Director, Regina V. Polk Women’s Labor Leadership Programs
Scholar-in-Residence, Newberry Library, Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
School of Labor and Employment Relations
815 W. Van Buren
Rice Building Suite 110, M/C 216
Chicago, IL 60607
312.413.0166 | etwarog@illinois.edumailto:etwarog@illinois.edu
www.ler.illinois.eduhttp://www.ler.illinois.edu/

https://www.facebook.com/Labor-Education-Program-University-of-Illinois-93566669048
<image001[88].png>
https://twitter.com/IL_Labor_Edu
<image002[70].png>
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-e-lb-twarog-phd-44208a7/
<image003.png>

http://illinois.edu/
<image004.png>

Under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act any written communication to or from university employees regarding university business is a public record and may be subject to public disclosure.

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--
"We are either part of the solution or part of the problem"

"The only reason an organization has dead wood is that management either hired dead wood or it hired live wood and killed it."  - W. Edwards Deming

CAUTION: This email originated outside of the Seattle Colleges’ email system. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Questions? Contact IT Services at x6333 (Central), x3630 (North), x5844 (South) or email ITHelp@seattlecolleges.edu.

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Hello Emily, and everyone,

I've found this thread very interesting. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

At the union I work for, the Alberta Union of Provincial Employees (AUPE), some people on our team created a decision-tree used in our steward's program. Find a copy attached and below. Maybe you'll find it useful.

[cid:0d86f0fc-f631-4fdc-ac85-8bae5287f78f]

Warmly,

Jordan Thompson, MA | He, him

Union Representative - Education

Alberta Union of Provincial Employees

780-930-5275 | ᐊᒥᐢᑿᒌᐚᐢᑲᐦᐃᑲᐣ (Amiskwacîwâskahikan)

[cid:7976f336-0a0a-4ffa-9b96-987743458425]

From: Dammann, Adair Adair.Dammann@Seattlecolleges.edu
Sent: June 13, 2023 12:16 AM
To: William Barry billbarry21214@gmail.com
Cc: UALE ualelist@list.uale.org
Subject: [Ualeindiv] Re: Query: Gripe vs Grievance

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I have taken to framing this differently altogether.  I teach that we HAVE to make our union relevant to our members and that stewards role includes helping members solve worksite problems, building unity, building power.

these days the training formerly known as “grievance vs. gripe” is now known as “contract issue, organizing issue, neither, both”.  Contact is a tool, but not the best tool for every job, and not applicable to many situations that come up for members.  This exercise really gets at discernment — people look at ambiguous scenarios, and decide the best course of action.  Will send a version.

Sent from my iPad
Adair.dammann@seatlecolleges.edu
Cell/text: 206.409.1329

On Jun 12, 2023, at 11:08 AM, William Barry billbarry21214@gmail.com wrote:


I think this distinction is one of the major failures of The Servicing Model because it almost dismisses problems that members have. As we try to organize (and to sign up free riders) we should listen to every "gripe," to see if we can use it as an organizing opportunity.
When a member comes with a complaint, first find how many others have the same issue. Then look at the "remedy"--what we want the boss to do to make the situation right. Or look at what the union can do when the boss refuses--the COVID showed us the organizing value of the union's passing out masks when the boss refused to do it. This strategy was used over the weekend at the Amazon facility on Staten Island, by the way.
One challenge with a "gripe" for many officers is that there is no specific contract language. So use the Recognition Clause, because it gives the union the right to bargain over any term and condition of employment--and that can include "gripes."
Be proactive, respond to the members and the union will get stronger.
Bill Barry

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 9:04 AM Labarbera-Twarog, Emily <etwarog@illinois.edumailto:etwarog@illinois.edu> wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone have a set of examples of a gripe vs a grievance? I want to run a role play in a class I am teaching and I thought I’d  ask before I come  up with my own list.

Thanks in advance,

Emily

EMILY E. LB. TWAROG, Phd, ms  (she/herhttps://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.reimaginegender.org%2finsights%2fa-shortish-guide-to-pronouns-and-honorifics%3fgclid%3dCjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaJ1Tbp0DRGhA5LHt1rRfCT6M2Mrzpl-WcTcylZunLwYwIaYbtfx0EhoCWKUQAvD_BwE&c=E,1,nMzBfV89pdElZkZtU-dtiuLS1r7EN3IS8ryKoztSAkc5t-aFJnKoZwk0SG0tC5cXPgk0erCnYsmWbmNTSGW06rK1pVjc2fpp0SMutpxT7bXxNNG6z3IU6buL&typo=1)
Associate Professor

Affiliate Faculty, Women and Gender in Global Perspective

Affiliate Faculty, European Union Center

Co-Director, Regina V. Polk Women’s Labor Leadership Programs

Scholar-in-Residence, Newberry Library, Chicago

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
School of Labor and Employment Relations
815 W. Van Buren
Rice Building Suite 110, M/C 216
Chicago, IL 60607
312.413.0166 | etwarog@illinois.edumailto:etwarog@illinois.edu
www.ler.illinois.eduhttps://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ler.illinois.edu%2f&c=E,1,b9ZmuU75W8HkX4SFbZjkchjzPEneBho1K-UttkebGyM4uJYqKubaUGI5oD3a_8r9Gvua5GMgDpVzNRsRWGP9xm0K8iNoToM1I8_rg_PaNDqtkpSY&typo=1

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